Message Board

Mid-Ohio Select Soccer League

MESSAGE:

Team A is up 3-0 well into the second half, dominating at both ends of the pitch.

Team B has no subs available.

Player from Team A commits a foul - no card or anything, just a hard foul. Team B kid is hurt, Team B coach comes onto the field and checks him out. Team B player is wobbly, but due to no available subs shakes it off and appears to be willing/able to continue. Ref has yet to indicate anything other than the foul.

If you are the Coach from Team A do you:

a) Jump up and down and scream that the rule is that since the coach came onto the field to attend to the kid, the player must come out of the game until the next substitution? (thereby making Team B play a man down for a spell)

b) Sit quietly and let the Ref make the call without your assistance.

To be clear, I know Team A's coach was correct about the rule, and do not blame the Ref one bit for making the call he had to make (no way to know what he would have done without such enthusiastic input).

Maybe I just don't have that "killer instinct" - I'm just curious what other coaches might do in a similar situation, or what parents would expect their coaches to do.

Responses

tallman110 On 10/10/2009 9:01:41 AM
Your point about class is well put. Just one comment on the rule, "an injured player may only return to the field of play after the match has restarted." (law 5) If you're playing a man down the ref can wave your player back on as soon as play starts, there is no need to wait for the next substitution.

Futbol3 On 10/9/2009 7:30:52 PM
Coachnref,

I don't want to be critical of your response, but I'm going have some fun with it since you implied my underwear is in a "bunch."

Let me summarize your response:

1) Recitation of the rule we all acknowledge applies, worth nothing.

2) Then you rambled about dropping a player, irrelevant to my post but responsive to a couple other posts about going above and beyond about playing a man down (nothing I would expect or ask for, but I respect Rick for his stance) - fine.

3) Then in one line you agree with me - as a coach you wouldn't make a fuss - Thanks! A++

4) Then you ramble on about winning matters, blah, blah, blah.

5) They you say OUR coach should (i) coach the remaining players, and (ii) get the removed player back in the game. Dang, I wish my coach would have thought of that... Actually we drilled the free kick for our only goal of the game (lost 5-1) so the injured player was only out for 5 seconds - not the point of the post.

6) I have no idea what confrontation or glamour has to do with anything, but nice, strong finish...

This message board has been as boring as watching paint dry since it was shut down and restarted. I was trying to get a conversation going about class and sportsmanship. I've had my fill of the posts complaining about slow posting of scores to the MOSSL website and cut & pastes from other websites (even though those have been pretty cool).

Lest you think my underwear is further bunched, I'm just having some fun! I am not offended by your post, and I also wasn't mad at the coach. It was actually kind of funny, he looked just like Horseshack from Welcome Back Kotter - Ooh, ooh, player has to come off!!! (hand raised, jumping up and down)

Have a great finish to the season everybody! :)

CoachnRef On 10/9/2009 6:40:28 PM
FIFA rules indicate that if the game is stopped for an injury -- and the coach or trainer comes out on the field to check the player, the player must leave the pitch. The only exception would be for the keeper. In High School (OHSAA/NFHS not MOSSL high school-age), the player must be removed from the field as well -- no exception for the keeper.

Therefore, the referee is supposed to remove the player.

Further, I would not expect my opponent to drop a player because I did not have a sufficient number of players. Nor would I drop a player -- especially not if I had a number of subs. Uh, at the same time, I wouldn't be jumping up and down as I am already taller than most and I would look silly. But, the rule is there for the safety of the player (and to stop delaying tactics, but it applies to both).

I am not likely to say much to the referee about the situation. If he allows the player to continue to play, it is on the referee.

You are playing in MOSSL. Wins do matter. Goal differential can matter. It's not recreational soccer.

Personally, I would not get my underwear in a bunch about the coaches actions. I would just coach the remaining players on the field and get the player to the sub flag as quickly as possible.

Not as confrontational. Not as glamorous. But, not worth worrying about, either.

Ciscooh On 10/9/2009 11:48:45 AM
This is one of those 'bigger picture' discussions. What is it that we really want to be teaching 'children'? I am certain, after 48 years in the game, that it is possible to maintain a focus on winning the match while teaching the players the importance of fair play.

However, with that said, we all have seen the people who absolutely have to have that win at U11 in order to validate participation by 'them' and their child, or the coach that is chasing a legacy built on the players/children and not having a clue as to what they are really teaching.

Rick On 10/9/2009 8:30:10 AM
You are right that it isn’t my responsibility to play a man down because of their team’s lack of participation. I use this situation as a sportsmanship lesson to my team, which holds more value to me. My team understands it, all parents don’t have a problem with it, the refs feel it’s a good gesture, and the other coach and players appreciate it. Why not? It’s a positive for everyone. I will say that the other coach doesn’t always accept the offer and plays with no subs, because he feels it’s not my responsibility to play down. I respect him for that too.

EagleCoach On 10/8/2009 4:14:26 PM
I am a highschool age coach and I can't remember the last time a ref made a kid go out of the game because of an injury and game stoppage, as long as they are not taking advantage of a running clock thats fine with me.

As for playing down because the other team is a man down. If team A has enough players show up to allow for subs I don't think it is their responsibility to play a man down due to team B's lack of participation. I would look at it this way. If I am voulantary playing a man down I am cutting into my players playing time. If my players show up they should get the maximum amount of playing time available.

The same thing come up about water breaks in tournaments if the other team shows up with (3) subs and I don't have any it's not the other teams responsibility to stop the game so my kids get a break.

Rick On 10/8/2009 10:45:06 AM
First off if the other team doesn’t have subs, I would’ve offered to play down at the beginning of the game so he could have a sub. But based on the post, I as a coach would just shut up and let the kid play. If the player is not able to continue, then I would pull one of my players at that point.

Futbol3 On 10/8/2009 9:36:48 AM
Should have put that, sorry. Just a MOSSL league game, 8v8, Team A at or near the top of the division, Team B at or near the bottom.

If it was a close and/or important game, I understand rules are rules and you press every advantage. But, I think we could have played 10v8 and probably still would have lost. I really was not mad at all, it certainly didn't alter the outcome of the game.

I just thought it was a bit classless, and I know if the coach of our team had behaved similarly (in a similar situation) I would have been very disappointed...

Coaches are looked up to for more than soccer knowledge and instruction, but also sportsmanship. I made sure I discussed the scenario with my son after the game, and reminded him how you can play very hard, and play to win, and still play with class. I guess I should thank the coach for such a teachable moment!!

states02 On 10/8/2009 9:06:33 AM
What age and what is the game format, Tourney or league? It doesn't benifit either team to have someone play a man down at a league game that really has no weight. Although I've played a man down many times with great resultIt can be a bit more cut throat at State Cup and Tournies, where every advantage is taken.